Ep. #206 – Evolution, Benedict XVI, and the Bible w/ Dr. Matthew Ramage
Summary
Does evolution conflict with Christianity? How does the thought of Benedict XVI help us navigate the questions concerning evolution? How should we interpret the creation accounts in the Bible? Why are these issues so pressing in our day? Dr. Matthew Ramage joins us to discuss these topics.
Guest Bio
Dr. Matthew Ramage is a Professor of Theology at Benedictine College and Adjunct Professor of Sacred Scripture for the graduate theology program at Holy Apostles College and Seminary. He is the author, contributing author, or co-translator of a variety of articles and books, including the monographs Dark Passages of the Bible: Engaging Scripture with Benedict XVI and Thomas Aquinas, Jesus Interpreted: Benedict XVI, Bart Ehrman, and the Historical Truth of the Gospels, and The Experiment of Faith. His latest book, From the Dust of the Earth: Benedict XVI, the Bible, and the theory of evolution is now out from Catholic University of America Press. For more on his work and his CV, visit Dr. Ramage’s website www.matthewramage.com
Resources
Dark Passages of the Bible: Engaging Scripture with Benedict XVI and Thomas Aquinas by Matthew Ramage
The Experiment of Faith by Matthew Ramage
Jesus Interpreted: Benedict XVI, Bart Ehrman, and the Historical Truth of the Gospels by Matthew Ramage
Evolution & the Bible – Matthew Ramage’s appearance on the Pat Flynn Show
Related Episodes
Ep. #55 – Modern Physics & Ancient Faith w/ Dr. Stephen Barr
Ep. #76 – Modern Physics & Classical Theism w/ Dr. Nigel Cundy
Ep. #162 – The Nature of Faith and Doubt w/ Dr. Matthew Ramage
I really enjoyed the podcast on evolution with dr. Ramage. I think he had some great insight and thought you presented a lot of good objections for him to answer. One objection I would have liked to hear his answer to however is the biblical teaching about sin and death entering the world through one man. This is one of the main objections from new earth protestants. How do we square Saint Paul’s teaching of this with evolution? I have a theory and wonder if any theologian has spoke on it before. Since God is outside of time, so to speak, I see the possibility that Adam and Eve really inhabited a perfect universe prior to the fall, but afterword when banished from this eden were sent to a sort of parallel universe where the effects of the fall where already in place, hence the millions of years of death and chaos of nature that science points to here in our world. Since parallel universe theories are somewhat popular in secular cosmology I would like to hear what Catholic thinkers have to say on this. Also I would like to have heard some more on scientific problems with dogmatic Darwinism, specifically how they square completely random mutations being the cause of the incredibly diverse and complex life on earth withe the second law of thermodynamics which states a processes create entropy. Hence all things tend to go from order and intricacy to disorder and a homogeneous state. But what we see in the fossil record is the exact opposite of that. After all, truly random mutations would create noise, not information in the genes, hence the mutations we routinely see in the world cause Cancer and other genetic disorders, which are not advantageous but detrimental to species survival. Anyways, I enjoyed the podcast and would like to hear more on this topic on the future. Thank you,
Jim
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the comments.
Re: “One objection I would have liked to hear his answer to however is the biblical teaching about sin and death entering the world through one man.”
Yes, Catholics do affirm that. We’ve discussed it in several episodes and how it can be compatible with evolution. See this one in particular. The short answer is that we *do* belive Adam and Eve were the first human beings with infused rational souls. Even if evolution produced bodies of human-like animals that were anatatomically similar to us, those animals would lack an infused rational soul and hence not be the first man in the sense that St. Paul is concerned with.
Re: “I have a theory and wonder if any theologian has spoke on it before. Since God is outside of time, so to speak, I see the possibility that Adam and Eve really inhabited a perfect universe prior to the fall, but afterword when banished from this eden were sent to a sort of parallel universe where the effects of the fall where already in place, hence the millions of years of death and chaos of nature that science points to here in our world. Since parallel universe theories are somewhat popular in secular cosmology I would like to hear what Catholic thinkers have to say on this.”
That is a really interesting theory and one I had not heard before. It would be a great one to pose for Jimmy Akin’s “weird questions” segments that he does on Jimmy AKin’s mysterious world. My initial instinct is that the Biblical data supports the garden of Eden referring to a place and state that God set up in this universe and not a parallel one. That would at least be the default position that has probably been assumed by all Christians prior to this recent moment. Nonetheless, whether Scripture and Church teaching demands this is not something I’m at all confident about. I’d have to look into it further. You could be on to something!
Re: “Also I would like to have heard some more on scientific problems with dogmatic Darwinism…”
Yes, this would be another worthy topic of discussion. You might enjoy some of the episodes my friend Pat Flynn has done with Dr. Michael Behe (biochemist) on his work on irreducible complexity. Nonetheless, that exploration wasn’t the aim of this show. The reason is this.
I want young people who learn about evolution *not* to view that experience to leave the faith. They should not leave the faith after learning about evolution since the Christian faith (and Catholic faith) is compatible with evolution being true. That was the main thrust of this episode.
Yet, since we do not have to feel threatened by evolution, we are also free to look into the evidence for and against it and see if all of the conclusions of evolutionary theory hold up to scrutiny. I think Christians open to seeing evolution as compatible with Christianity are in the *best position* to be open-minded about the evidence. If the evidence strongly points toward evolution, we can follow it. If it strongly points away from evolution, we cann follow it there too.
Perhaps in a future show we’ll engage some of those topics that you mention. Thanks again for your very thoughtful comments.
Peace,
John
Thanks for the response. I will definitely check out the referenced material. Looking forward to learning more on these topics.
poligenism is EXPLICITLY condemned by the church, read humani generis!
Agreed! But sometimes there is ambiguity over how the word “polygenism” is used. If it refers to there being many anatomically modern humans (though not with full rationality) when God first created Adam and Eve with rational souls, then *that* would be compatible with Catholic teaching. Some people would call that polygenism. But if a person means by polygenism that there were initially many anatomically modern humans with a rational soul and not an original pair, then that is indeed outside the bounds of Catholic teaching.